There might be a middle term in which you are not guessing as much as you think you are. Daily training internalize things on us, and sooner or later your memory will associate more easily an exact sound with it's name and place on the scale.

What I think is a good think to do is to sing the root of each chord, trying to find it (since some are inverted), thus reinforcing the relation between the whole sound complex of each chord and its degree on the scale.

If you play a harmonic instrument, like the piano, I think that would also be useful to play some chord progressions that you have trained in each day, which beforehand you would have taken note, and imagine their sound in your head before striking the notes, then you could calibrate your inner ear more and more.

I don't have much experience on aural training, I'm just having these insights provoked by your questions. I actually don't do nothing of this, but I will now! :D

I'm not sure what your question is, the point of everything here is ear training. To be able to more quickly recognize and identify tones, harmonies, and melodies.

Route VI is one of the best exercises in my opinion (at least for me as a live musician) because identifying key centers and progressions is one of the most valuable skills for a player in any sort of band/improvisational setting. Being able to quickly identify the I/tonal center is half of the battle in those situations.

Also there are really only so many chord progressions that are commonly used. Being familiar with them and able to quickly identify them is, again, a very valuable skill. The same way each type of chord or interval has its own quality, so does each chord progression. Recognizing that quality is what this exercise is training. For instance, you should be able to quickly identify a V-I in any given progression (being arguably the most common and important progression in western harmony)

The key center is given to you before the chords are played, that is the first thing to focus on. You should first figure out which is the I, then how each chord fits in relation to the I.

Identify the I, listen for the root of each chord to figure out its relation relative to the I, and then identify the greater structure of the progression based on the chord tones.

Even if you don't feel like you are learning, I'd argue that you certainly are. The goal with all these exercises is recognition through repetition. Even if you are just picking out one chord and figuring out the progression from there, you are still subconsciously improving your recognition of that progression. Try to see if you can figure out what the progression is before you look at the choices.

Hope that answered you somewhat.

Thanks Igor. I agree with what you say, but I can't help but feel that there has to be a better, more logical approach to learning this.

Part of my beef with this game is that the chord progressions don't stay on screen for very long. I think they should stay on the screen after we answer and not move on to the next progression until we click 'next' or something. That would give us a chance to play with the progressions on our instruments and get to know them better. I have suggested this to @ToneGym, so I am hoping it may be implemented in the future, but who knows.

One way to approach this, is how would you approach it in a real-world scenario where you would hear a song and try to figure out what the progression is? That's really the bottom line practical skill here.

You would pick out notes from the chords, match them on your chosen instrument, notice intervals between notes and how they move between chords, etc. So, you are learning to pick out notes from chords (ear) while also learning about how chords relate to each other (theory), and not only learning that, but getting it ingrained through repetition. And as you allude to, you are also learning to recognize chord quality more reliably (maj/min/dim, etc.).

So, I think it's a pretty rich game that's more than just being able to pick out notes and recognize intervals, but all that within a real harmonic context.

Now, the fact that it's multiple-choice makes it a bit easier than the real-world scenario of trying to figure out the chords without already having it narrowed down to 4 or so choices, but if you want to challenge yourself, you can always ignore what they choices are and only compare what you came up with against the choices after you've already made an effort to do without. Or not. Use whatever crutch you need to help you move forward until you don't need it any more.

When people who struggle with this game ask for help, there have been some very helpful answers posted here. It would be really nice if those tips and helps could be gathered in one place as a reference, or as a tutorial as Adam suggested. I, for one, would watch a tutorial over and over because I have yet to make any progress with that game even with all the great suggestions. So I vote yes on a tutorial.

Hi Adam. I think you're absolutely right about Route VI not providing much in the way of learning opportunities, if by this you mean that the game isn't explicitly TEACHING you how to recognize chord progressions. In fact, this is arguably true for all of the games on Tonegym. They don't teach so much as give you a platform to practise what you hopefully will already have learned in a basic way elsewhere.

I guess the analogy of an actual gym helps here. If you use a gym and already know how to use the equipment, you will probably make quicker progress. If, by contrast, you go to a gym and have no idea how to use any of the machines, progress will be slow - and you may even injure yourself!

Therefore, I suggest that, to get the most out of Route VI, you find structured teaching material about chord progressions elsewhere. This knowledge can help speed up your progress in Route VI.

To give just a few examples of what you can learn about chord progressions from good material, if you know what the chords are for each step of the major scale, and also know which of those chords share two of the same notes, you will identify chord progressions more easily: when chords share two of the same notes, because only one note is changing rather than two or three, you can usually hear how there’s less of a difference occurring. Or knowing which chords have the leading tone (the note that is one semi-tone below the tonic) will help you 'hear' that a chord must be either the iii, the V or the viiº in a major progression, for example. These are of course just examples of information that can be learned by using good material, and you'll find that your ear just becomes more aware of what it's hearing and better at hearing chord progressions.

For what it's worth, I found Groove3 has some excellent resources for interval training (Doug Zangar) and macprovideo has some excellent resources for chord progressions and more general ear training (Gregg Fine). Moreover, YouTube has some excellent free materials (David Bennett Piano does some great stuff for interval recognition and chord progressions) and, also on YouTube, Musicmatters has an excellent video on chord progressions and which chords share some of the same notes, a video called 'Advanced Music Harmony'.

But yes, I am in full agreement with you, Adam. This website is not explicitly 'teaching' so much as giving opportunities for repeated practice; and while the latter is of course also very important, it's likely to be less effective in the absence of at least some solid knowledge.

(I’ve actually suggested more than once in the past, both on this website and the sister website Soundgym, that each of the games should come with at least one tutorial, or preferably more than one, to help train you in what you’re listening for and providing tips on how to listen effectively).

@Adam Deering About what you said on the progression cutting off to the next question too fast, you can always hit 'C' for the game to hold the answer.

ToneGym is a gym giving us tools and exercises that can be approached in so many ways because this is music that we are working on and not math questions. The way you approach those games and exercises can affect your whole learning curve, and the trick is finding the right approach that will suit you best. For some, it will be just listening to the emotions that the chords give them. For some, it will be listening to the Bass note or the route, and for some, it will be finding a reference in their head.

So what I would recommend is to try to find another approach if you feel that you're passing those challenges without the challenge.

Hope that helped :)

@Andrew Shewaga Thanks for your reply. I understand the point of the game, but I am asking where the instructions are? How do we approach learning these progressions? What do we listen out for? It's a game without instructions.

You said: The key center is given to you before the chords are played, that is the first thing to focus on. You should first figure out which is the I, then how each chord fits in relation to the I. I didn't know that's what was happening until you mentioned it. As a beginner, we need these things explained to us.

For me, this game is like going to the real gym without any instructions. Sure, you can go there and start using equipment, lifting weights etc and you'll probably attain some level of fitness, but you would become much fitter more quickly if someone showed you how to use the equipment properly.

@Neil Gilmartin thanks for your reply and suggestions! Very interesting than I also used the gym analogy in my reply to Andrew above 😊

Thanks for the tip about listening out for chords that share the same notes. As you suggested, I think I need to familiarise myself more with the individual chords before trying to recognise them in the progressions. It seems I'm trying to walk before I've learned to crawl. I am familiar with groove3, so I will check those resources out and the ones on you tube that you suggested.

@Itai Ortal thanks for your reply.

I didn't know about hitting 'c' to do that. Very useful. How did you find out about that?

@Adam Deering In each game you can hit the TAB key and it will tell you of all shortcuts and different functions.
Also, I am the social and community manager of SoundGym, so I need to know EVERYTHING 😈😈😈 MUHAHAHAHAAA

@Itai Ortal thanks! Why doesn't SG make these things more obvious to its users?

@Adam Deering Not sure why, but we are always working on improving our platforms. So I can assure you that we will get to that 👌🏽😉

A few weeks back, I was in a similar situation. My goal is to ear all the notes in the chord and then, and only then, I continue to the next level. The level is played too fast, so I created a variation on an other software (Ear Master) to isolate specific progressions. After a while you start to ear all the notes. In my situation, it is like a an arpegio that is played very fast. I transcribe the notes on paper and then choose the correct answer. It is way longer road, but it is way more usefull. After a few months, years, you will start to recognize the chord progressions of any 'tonal' song. I hope it helps.

@Itai Ortal thanks, but it kinda seems like something as fundamental as keyboard shorcuts should be kept secret from the community.

@Pablo Lecavalier-Ruiz I totally agree that game is WAY too fast. I have suggested to TG that each progression should be left onscreen until the player clicks 'next'. That way, we'll have time to analyse and play with the progressions and learn more about how they sound before moving on to the next one.

@Adam Deering That would be helpful indeed, I would love use my instrument to play around with the progressions I missed to get more familiar with them.

I like the idea of having time to play them on the keyboard. Have been guessing like Adam, and am on level 36, but I am often guessing.

I agree. It would be nice to have some training in some areas before being tested (and continually failing after 3 attempts). It would be nice to set us up for success, not failure.

i use the piano for this exercice, i play the chords i have heard and click the right answer lol

There's no real substitute for a keyboard instrument. It is likely the keyboard to which the tonal way of thinking owes its existence.

I do not believe fluency in this area can really be built up with games, though they might help those already gifted in this area keep their skills sharp.

Ultimately music is a language, and you do not learn a language with multiple choice questions. You must interface with the language in the way it is intended to be used.

This is such an interesting thread. I have the intuition that there is not a simple answer. I was doing a small research on youtube and there is no tutorial about this game. I am thinking of create a few videos about this specific topic and explain how I trained my ear without any keyboard skills. Please like if you think that it could be usefull! Thanks

@Pablo Lecavalier-Ruiz Yes please!

Well, I'll create a new channels in the next weeks or so. I have to figure out how I will structure the videos and I will keep you updated. I hope it will help others.

@Pablo Lecavalier-Ruiz Excellent! 😊

@Itai Ortal I tired holing 'c' to keep the answer onscreen, but all it does is darken the background for a second. The answer disappears just as quickly as it doesn't when I'm not holing 'c'.

@Adam Deering Just press C. If I said hold, I was confused lol.
First press holds the screen. The second press lets the game continue.

@Itai Ortal many thanks!

@Adam Deering I'd recommend you spend some time learning a bit of functional theory before coming back to these exercises. Otherwise I don't believe you are going to get the most out of practicing them. There are a ton of great resources out there and it's something where a little bit of knowledge will go a long way.

These exercise assume a basic knowledge of harmony and aren't really meant to teach it. Without that knowledge you are going to lack the full context in which to use the skills you are developing

is a good primer as far as youtube vids go.

@Andrew Shewaga thank you for that! 🙏

@Andrew Shewaga this actually confused me. I've never heard the iii chord referred to as the tonic before?

https://kaitlinbove.com/harmonic-progression explains why the video refers to the iii as a tonic chord. Essentially it is because when the iii chord is used in a diatonic progression, it is almost always substituting the I, thus acting as the tonic.

Technically the iii is called the mediant, and functions as a substitution for either the I 𝒐𝒓 the V. But since the I substitution is much more common, the video groups it under tonic to simplify.

For example, in C Major, the I chord is (CEG) and the iii chord is (EGB). As you can see, these chords share 2 of 3 notes (E & G) which is why this substitution works. More specifically, in this example the iii is functioning as a Imaj7 (CEGB). This is because the 1,3, and 5 of iii (E, G, B) are the 3, 5, and 7 of Imaj7

Another way to think of it is that a iii is just a Imaj7 missing its root

if you want to read more about substitutions check out: https://theoryandsound.com/chord-borrowing-substitution/

The iii is a fairly uncommon chord and substitutions are a more advanced subject, so don't worry about this too much. The main thing to understand is that since the iii is so similar to the I, you can generally just think of the iii as another way to play the I.

@Andrew Shewaga Thank you. That was very helpful.

To amplify what Andrew said, in harmonic analysis, chords are talked about in terms of their harmonic function. In addition to the tonic, the iii and the vi are both said to either have tonic function or (depending on the text or teacher) tonic prolongation function. IV and ii both have pre-dominant function, and vii-dim and V both have dominant function. And that's just talking about the chords that are diatonic in a major key. Other chords with pre-dominant function, for instance, are the N6 chord (first inversion of the Neopolitan chord, the major chord based on the flat-second scale degree), augmented 6th chords, the iv chord (borrowing from the minor).

I wonder if we can get to 40 comments?

It’s possible, right? If we believe hard enough.

Right now I'm believing so hard that it hurts...😣

We can

At least i can

Done!

Yea?!

Comment 'More Chord Progressions!!!' if you want another chord progression game on ToneGym :)

Let's go for another 40 comments. Can we get there?

More Chord Progressions for Route IV!
+
Another Chord Progressions Game (Route LXVI)!

Yes, more chord progression games would be great :-D

More chord progressions please!

Absolutely love this one (BWV 903), hope we can fit it into the game 😎

More chord progression games please!

I'm another person: Please more progressions games!!🐮

I Second this. I am really struggling with Route VI. Can't recognize chord progressions all that well. We need a tool on recognizing Chord functionality.

Here here! (grumble)

Hear hear?

More chord progressions games please!

@XIN ToneGym the beginners (like me) need a game to train us in the basics - a pre Route VI game, if you like.

I wouldn’t say no to more chord-progression recognition games.

@Adam Deering, I understand what you are saying. These games are more about practice than learning.

The site called Ear Beater is free. It has exercises for intervals, chords and scales. And you can also design your own if there are certain intervals/chords you are have trouble with or differentiating between.

https://www.earbeater.com/online-ear-training/#/

@Anthony Andrulonis Sounds great, thank you. I'll check that out.

I'm a bit disappointed by some of the games on TG because they only facilitate practice, rather than teach. I thought the whole idea of it was to enable us to learn through practice, so it would be better if the games would state that you need some experience to benefit from them.

Yes